HUD admits ROCC "formed out of thin air"

By Sarah Owens and Michael Livingston

Nora Lally explains leave process at annual ROCC meeting

The admission was made this week in Salem, at ROCC's annual meeting, during a session intended to explain the elements needed for HUD to recognize a region as an independent Continuum of Care.  (For background, see "ROCC: Leave or Remain?")  Leading the session were Nora Lally and Matt Olsson with HomeBase, Todd Adkins and Doug Carlson with HUD's Community Planning and Development (CPD) Portland Field Office, Jessica Adams (CAPO staff assigned to ROCC), and Justina Fife (UCAN Community Action Partners and ROCC board chair).  Our notes on the session can be found at the end of this post.

In attendance were about 35 representatives from ROCC's  member agencies, almost all of which are CoC Program grantees, including the three from Marion and Polk counties that will receive CoC funding in 2019-2020:  Shangri-La ($311,185), Salem Interfaith Hospitality Network (dba Family Promise) ($160,764) and Center for Hope and Safety ($188,561).  Shangri-La's Robin Winkle was the only local rep who asked questions.  TJ Putman and Tiffany Ottis with Family Promise were present, as was Jayne Downing with Center for Hope and Safety.  Diane Merry and Scott Eastburn with the Mid-Willamette Valley Community Action Agency also were there.  MWVCAA lost its Rapid Rehousing project when ROCC gave it an undeserved low score in the most recent competition.  See "ROCC Fissures Continue to Grow."  Shelly Ehenger (Salem Urban Development Department) and Pamala Garrick (Salem Housing Authority) also attended.

Doug "heavy lift" Carlson, with Matt Olsson at left

After Lally, Doug Carlson  (Director of the CPD Portland Field Office) did most of the talking.  He did most of the talking a couple of years ago, too.  See "HUD Seeks to Ease Tensions Within the ROCC" (recounting the May 2017 conference call between Marion and Polk officials and HUD).

Carlson is concerned that Marion and Polk officials think, "If you do this [separation] the government will give you a bunch of money."  Echoing his comments from 2017, he said,

I do know what the realities are. We had a discussion with the group from Marion and Polk a few years ago, the theme was consistent:  we need more money.  I can't guarantee HUD is going to step up. If we need to explain that to commissioners or elected officials, because I don’t want there to be a mistaken belief.

Referring to Lane County, which receives about the same CoC Program funding that ROCC does, Carlson said, 

What Lane has is extraordinary support from local governments.  What really benefits their CoC program is knowledge and capacity, and all the public, private and government entities in the structure. It's an extremely heavy lift [to achieve that level of cooperation]. We know from our experience that its a heavily lift administratively.

Pegge McGuire, Community Services Consortium (CSC) of Linn, Benton and Lincoln counties, said Lane County understood much earlier than other Oregon communities what the CoC Program offered.  But, instead of pursuing those opportunities, "they just relied on OHCS" for direction.  That's when Carlson said,

ROCC was formed out of thin air.  It was put together by us [at HUD] and a consulting group out of necessity because OHCS wasn’t interested.  That is why we have the ROCC in its current form.

ROCC in its current form is an unincorporated coalition of service providers from 28 counties across Oregon.  It has two support staff housed at Community Action Partners of Oregon (CAPO).  Its  governing body is dominated by grantees with minimal CoC program knowledge and capacity and little interest in a systemic approach to the ending homelessness.  The organization itself is incapable of holding funds, is barely recognized by its local governments, has no institutional structures, and demonstrates only a nominal commitment to CoC Program goals.

We asked Carlson which he thought was the heavier lift, achieving CoC Program goals while a member of ROCC, or achieving them through a regional CoC that has substantial local government support and a unified funding agency, but did not receive a reply before this was posted.

To see all our posts on this subject, look for "ROCC: Leave or Remain?" under CANDO Archive Issues.

Panel: Jessica Adams, Justina Fife, Nora Lally, Matt Olsson, Todd Adkins, Doug Carlson

Notes on June 4, 2019 Session with HUD Officials at ROCC's Annual Meeting

We arrived at the Holiday Inn on Market Street at 10 to find start of the session with HUD had been moved up to 9:45, and Lally speaking in front of a series of slides.  "It's not really an approval process, more like acknowledging the necessary elements have been demonstrated", she said, referring to a slide headed "Basic Timeline."  The first element was a "transitional body" and their vote to support forming a new CoC.  Next came "consult" with the wider membership and their vote to approve moving forward.  Lally said such a vote would not need to be unanimous, but would need to be "more than 51%", a "preponderance."  If that element was satisfied, the next step was to notify the existing CoC.

Lally was just starting to explain that the new CoC would have to have a governance charter when Justina Fife, came over and told us we couldn't videotape the session.  Michael told her he was using an audio recorder.  She said we couldn't do that, either, and went away again.

The slide read "Potential Impacts of a Split on Balance of State CoC", first bullet point, "Reduction in Annual Renewal Demand tied to any projects that choose to go to the new CoC."  Doug Carlson was explaining how the process that Lally was describing was "normal practice."  He said explaining it was "not advocacy or non-advocacy", that this sort of thing happens in other communities, and that HUD doesn't take a position on how communities want to structure themselves.  But then he commented  that “splits are unique”, and that they generally "see more mergers."

Carlson said they were there to answer questions.  Lally said they wouldn't be able to answer all questions, but that William Snow (CPD's Office of Special Needs Assistance) was willing to schedule time for follow up questions.  

Robin Winkle (Shangri-La) referred to the slide that was up and asked, "Do projects really get to choose?"  She rose from her seat at the back of the room and went to sit at the front, near the speakers.  She complained that "none of this has really been brought to the grantees — it has once", she said.  She said "Shangri-La is actually in five counties."  Would they have to participate in both CoCs?

Lally explained that the choice referred to in the slide was whether or not to create a separate CoC, not which CoC to go with, and that participating in multiple CoCs "is not unheard of."

Winkle wanted to know how the restructuring was going to affect people in programs?  Olsson said that HUD would want to make sure that clients are "not affected" and that "HUD will work to restructure projects", but there could be an impact "on the administrative side."

At 10:15, it appeared that there were no more questions.  The group was told they had another 30 minutes, and there would likely not be another opportunity to speak with HUD reps in person like this. Someone asked how many projects do Marion and Polk Counties have?  The response was four.  "So three [grantees] have to agree to leave?"  "No", Lally explained, "the vote is not just grantees.  It's the stakeholder group as defined by HUD's interim rule."

"It sounds like the group who wants to separate, [if it has all the pieces together] that’s it?", someone asked.  Lally answered in the affirmative, but Carlson added several times that "It's a heavy lift", as if to suggest the separation might not occur.

Pegge McGuire (Deputy Director, Community Services Consortium, which covers Linn/Benton/Lincoln) said her organization was "under political pressure to pull out" of ROCC, but she wasn't interested in taking on governance responsibilities.  Winkle asked whether she would be looking at joining Marion and Polk, or forming another CoC.  McGuire said if she were to recommend leaving, she would recommend joining Marion and Polk.  Someone said that she had heard frequent comparisons between ROCC and Lane County in terms of CoC funding.  McGuire commented, "No one will catch up to Lane."

Carlson recounted his version of the decision to join the ROCC in 2011, then said,

What Lane has is extraordinary support from local governments.  What really benefits their CoC program is knowledge and capacity, and all the public, private and government entities in the structure.  It's an extremely heavy lift [to achieve that level of cooperation]. We know from our experience that its a heavily lift administratively.

McGuire said, "It wasn't until Scott Rich came to the State and said, 'You are walking away from all this money', but Lane knew that already.  Other [communities] didn’t grasp that, they just relied on OHCS.  I don’t know that [Marion and Polk] will ever reach what Lane has."

Carlson said "ROCC was formed out of thin air.  It was put together by us and a consulting group out of necessity because OHCS wasn’t interested.  That is why we have the ROCC in its current form."  Adkins said "Lane has had a lot of government support, but it’s not that easy.  There are built-in advantages for those who got in early.  The annual renewal demand for successful counties [like Lane] far exceeds their pro-rata need."  Carlson said that HUD today is "just basically renewing projects", and was not really funding many bonus projects.  He said it wasn't a matter of going to D.C. and lobbying HUD for more money.  He said the situation would continue without additional funds from Congress.

At 10:30, it again appeared there were no more questions.  Then someone asked about the impact on ROCC's HMIS grant, and "What are the next steps for ROCC to fill the gap?"  Lally responded that questions on the HMIS grant should be directed to William Snow.  Concerning the next steps, she said that HUD recognizes that splits should be coordinated between the legacy and new CoCs or the split will be much more difficult. 

Shelly Ehenger (City of Salem) asked whether field office staff would be same for both CoCs.  Carlson said he has very small staff, implying that they would be the same.  Winkle commented, "If we have the commitment of the providers [in Marion and Polk counties], great, but if it dwindles away, it will be like before. I just don’t want to see the people we are serving hurt."

McGuire said that providers in her community "don’t have a lot of interest in putting energy in governance", that she was "just trying to follow conversation and hear what the flavor is."  Fife asked rhetorically what will happen if Marion and Polk counties aren't successful, and want to rejoin the ROCC.  Carlson said he didn't "want there to be a misnomer", for people to think, "If you do this the government will give you a bunch of money."  He said,

I do know what the realities are. We had a discussion with the group from Marion and Polk a few years ago, the theme was consistent:  we need more money.  I can't guarantee HUD is going to step up. If we need to explain that to commissioners or elected officials, because I don’t want there to be a mistaken belief. 

McGuire said she thought that there was that mistaken belief and the belief that more control over projects would somehow translate to more money.  Someone else said that local control of the review and ranking process would not help, either.  McGuire said that the elephant in the room was ROCC's  governance.  Someone said what’s unfortunate is the timing, because things are better with CAPO taking on more of a role. 

Jan Calvin (consultant with Mid-Willamette Valley Council of Government) said she could speak to the question of political leaders' expectations regarding more money.  She said that, in presentations about the CoC, leaders were told its not about the money, but also that "It's always about the money."  She said "money" doesn't necessarily mean CoC money.  She said that only one tenth of the money coming into Marion and Polk Counties is CoC funding.  She said the issue for Marion and Polk was, "How do we do better work in our [geographic] footprint and in our organizations." 

Scott Eastburn (Mid-Willamette Valley Community Action Agency, The ARCHES Project) said that local control over the review and ranking process should make a difference.  He said he had heard the former ROCC coordinator (Jo Ann Zimmer) say CoC funds should be spread throughout region, not go just to the biggest agencies.  He said regional distribution wasn't one of the ranking criteria, and that  Marion and Polk had lost funds because of that instruction.  He said he was worried about his clients, too.  He said Marion and Polk counties have made a lot of changes for the good, but doesn’t feel like they have been fairly represented by ROCC.  

6/21/19 Update:  from CAPO's June newsletter